Curse

Dax · Jun 12, 2005, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Normally I'm very much against powerleveling in MMOs. I think in a party situation where you're dependant on other people. People who exploit the process don't have the same seriousness as those who are trying to level up legitimately.

Having said that, this game was almost designed for people to not have to do any grinding are really makes it easy for people to exploit the system. I really don't feel the same dependace on people and very often use henchmen. So unless this was a flaw on Anets part...who cares. It's not going to change the way I play...because the journey is supposed to be fun. As far as PvP i keep hearing that skill is what makes a great warrior.

Verbose · Jun 13, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium

I really can understand what you getting at here, but i fail to see how it relates to Guild Wars, i spent alot of time on those links you posted (and really enjoyed them i might add) but the info dosent apply here.

I disagree. Here's why -- you are assuming that because they are not using a monthly subscription model, that they have no interest in gaining the net result of a per month revenue stream.

I submit to you that they very clearly intend to receive that same net result (more, actually), they simply intend to receive it six months out and every six months (or thereabout) thereafter via 'chapters' which, conveniently enough, are (from all acounts) going to be priced at about $50.

$50.00 / 6 = $8.33 a month

The difference in cost between that $8.33 a month and the $12.00+ you see other MMOS charge can be neatly explained by instancing and use of repeatative content (e.g., same/similar models, same/similar textures, lowering cost of development thereby, etc.).

However, in order to make this work, they have to:

1) Keep you playing until the chapter is ready,
2) Keep you interested enough to buy the chapter.

Needless to say, the design considerations and mechanics of MMO's in general are just as compelling. Actually, you could say they are more so... however, ArenaNet has badly mistaken the market by pushing themselves as a 'no per month charge' and by assuming that reusability of content is something that is going to support them over the life of their offering -- but that's another discussion for another time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium

In a "pay for play" system you bet they dont want people rushing through the content as if they did why would they maintain there subscriptions, if they saw everything in a week? Thats why they rely on the "level grind" to keep people interested while they create new content. As my title says Guild Wars has no subscription fee's , therefore the "pressure" to keep the people enertained is greatly relieved. there have been tons of posts relating to why a person would rush through the game, everyone i have seen is perfectly fine/reasonable. I will most certainly rush my last 2 toon through, as the story is good, its not "that" good

Oh and i did notice that everything i saw on those links was specificaly for the "pay for play" type games

As mentioned above, this isn't a true change in how things are done. It is merely a clever marketing ploy.... one which, while successful on some superficial levels, is already showing signs of seriously endangering their longevity.

Any time you have players feeling justified in exhausting content well before the intended life, you have a problem. This goes for replayability as well as the first pass.

Nazutul · Jun 13, 2005, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Being able to Ascend at level 3 is a bit crappy. But as for the Lornar's Pass runs, if anyone can make that, more power to 'em. The Lornar's Pass run is anything but easy.

asdar · Jun 13, 2005, 10:44 AM // 10:44

There's where you're wront Nazutul. It takes about 15 minutes and is the easiest thing in the game.

I won't give the secret recipe but I know it. A level 20 War/Mo can make it pretty easily. It might take a few practice runs, but easy ever after.

They sell them in Beacon's.

As far as the no fee thing, they were pretty up front about the way they intend to do that.

Not only that but every MMO out there charges $50 and has expansions every 6-9 months. Or at least the players hope they have the expansions and they have to pay the monthly fee on top of that.

They have to make the exansions good enough that people will buy them, and they have to make it so one expansion doesn't introduce items that'll ruin the game and their revenue stream.

That's what I like about this system.

Weezer_Blue · Jun 13, 2005, 11:16 AM // 11:16

If A.Net wants to force us to go through the story many times to get all the skills unlocked, then I am quite glad every time someone beats the piece of shit system and goes strait to ascension from level 3! although... how do you guys beat your mirrors? that would seem tough.

Mimu · Jun 13, 2005, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

If A.Net wants to force us to go through the story many times to get all the skills unlocked, then I am quite glad every time someone beats the piece of shit system and goes strait to ascension from level 3! although... how do you guys beat your mirrors? that would seem tough.

Empathy, strafe.

I have not ascended at level 3 yet, however I am going to be attempting it quite soon.

Edit: If you have not yet seen this..it is worth watching.

Raiddinn Beatdropper · Jun 13, 2005, 12:37 PM // 12:37

The first time I went through the game with my Wiz/Mez I took a wrong turn without having any previous knowledge of where I am *supposed* to go.

I went LA, to Hot Springs, To Temple of Ages just wandering around with NPCs.

After that I wanted to wander some more and my choices were either West or South, and I picked south, and I went down to the river city, and sanctum cay.

Ill tell you what too, there is an armor crafter at sanctum cay for casters, and I was tanking way better than warriors when I actually started back over from LA with the missions after that when someone told me, hey you went the wrong way...

I partially agree with being sad to see a lvl 2 in droknars forge asking for money saying she is naked though... If you want to get a lvl 2 to droknars or something stupid like that, ok spamming that you got a lvl 2 there is kinda funny, spamming that you want money from me because you are lvl 2 and you got there is kinda sad though.

If you want to shortcut everything great, just keep it to yourself please.

Tsunamii Starshine

salja Wachi · Jun 13, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

who cares abuot the lower level arenas? they are just for fun amyway you do not get fame, nor any other reward other then beatint 4 other players senseless.

if a player wast to try and ascend a level 3 who are yo uto say he should not???

you spend your 50 bucks they way you wnat to and he will spend his the way he wants to.

if Anet did nto want this to happen they could have made it so you cannot get to certain areas withough being a certain level. they have not done so, this means that you can just shut this forum down as being useless

Divinitys Creature · Jun 13, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

It would be a good way to level, since the mobs are so much higher in level.

Zodiac · Jun 13, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

So far the only valid argument I have seen is that this imbalances low level arenas.

If they really want to close the loophole then simply place armor level restriction on particular arenas and downgrade them automatically. I really hate level restrictions on items. Or fix the path so you can't use a W/Mo to run through. Heck, make a gate there that needs time to open will stop all the runners. Or, have mechanism that needs more than one person to get through, like the Across the Wall quest in pre-searing (why aren't this kind of stuff in the rest of the game?)

I personally don't care about the low level arenas. If someone wants to cheat and get high level armor/skills to get their virtual genital stroked in the low level arenas, all the power to them.

As far as skipping the storyline goes, truth to the matter is, I highly doubt anyone would do that with their first character. Even if they do, who cares if someone has ubah items in PvE?

lightblade · Jun 13, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedsia

Am I the only one who think tihs is totally wrong, cheesy and should be stopped? There's a reason there's a PVP template. If people want to be instant 20, there it is. Ya I get my own copy of the game each time I walk out of town, but it still sickens me to hear of these characters leeching their way to Ascenion trials at character levels as low as 3.

I did post a complaint about this to the GW support and was told to post on a forum, so here I am

Here's what I offically had to say:

As a PvE primarily player, I'm quite distressed by the fact many people have found a loophole to Ascending. I'm hearing of numerous reports of EXTREMELY low level characters, like lvl 3s being at Ascension trials. I'm also concerned that players are paying higher level characters to escourt them through Lornar's Pass to purchase level 20 armor at low levels.

Ascension is supposed to mean something. And it cheapens the game to have these loopholes. Can it be made so that you have to ACTUALLY Ascend to get to Droknars. Close the pass please. And it ruins the Pve enviroment that low levels are getting this stuff so early and benefitting from friends carrying them to the desert. Can there be a level requirement to Ascension trials, and check the entire party, not just the leader. People are slipping through by joining parties and leeching

Is this really asking too much. I mean, it really does cheapen the play in my opinion, to know that I spent hours going through the game as it was meant to be played and someone else can come along and just skip through it all and get the same benefit. Kinda takes the importance out of Ascenion in my opinion.

I don't think they went pass Lornar's Pass to get to Droknar's Forge. Lornar's Pass is still hard even for 8 lvl 20s, let alone only 6...

Creston · Jun 13, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I'm of two minds on this issue.

If someone pays to have someone else rush him through Lornar's pass, so he can get to Roknar's and get the end game armor, then uses that armor to own the Ascalon arenas, then yes, I would say that that is unfair and that that person is actually quite sad. This is presumably the same sort of person who uses an aimbot in CS, then at the end proclaims how 733T they are.

I mean, if someone took a lvl 20 character into the arena and fights lvl 8 characters (not sure if this is even possible or not), we'd consider it unfair, what's the difference with the person who uses a pretty much unbeatable armor for that level?

However, if someone wants to rush to Droknar's to get the armor so running through the game is less of a hassle your second or third (or more) time through, I fail to see how this has any effect on anyone AT ALL.

As for people ascending lvl 3 characters, shrug, I fail to see why they do so, but again, how does this affect YOUR enjoyment of the PvE game? You can talk about "well, it cheapens my reward" all you want, but do you complain that your colleague makes 5000 dollars more, too?

Some people will chose to do different things. Actually, I think the idea of trying to rush to Droknar's Forge to get the top end armor is pretty smart, and I might try it myself.

Creston

Yamat · Jun 13, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51

The low level arenas are the first time new people to the game will PvP. If they are getting mashed in 15 seconds, they may dump the game and not come back.

That's not good for the game... the more people, the better.

IxChel · Jun 13, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

If I've run through all of the areas with one character, there is no reason why I should be forced through the grind with a second. I should be able to teleport to anywhere my other toon has been to.

Eclair · Jun 13, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac

I personally don't care about the low level arenas. If someone wants to cheat and get high level armor/skills to get their virtual genital stroked in the low level arenas, all the power to them.

You do not care, but that doesn't mean other people don't. Realize that this game doesn't cater to only you. Many people have expressed concerns over the "griefing" that occurs in the lower level arenas. Frankly, if you do not care about something, then why should anyone care about your opinion on the subject?

Keesa · Jun 13, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

If A.Net wants to force us to go through the story many times to get all the skills unlocked, then I am quite glad every time someone beats the piece of shit system and goes strait to ascension from level 3! although... how do you guys beat your mirrors? that would seem tough.

Backfire, Healing Breeze, strafe. (I saw Empathy was mentioned but this is what I used at 14 and what a guildmate used on his 3rd char at 4). Other techniques involve tricking the AI into using skills that are worthless if you don't do A or B, but I don't know as much about those.

Miss Puddles · Jun 13, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

while i agree that it shouldn't matter how people are playing the game on their own time, it does bug me to end up grouped with someone who obviously had other people rush them through the game and have no idea what they need to be doing. it does affect other players who spent time levelling and working hard on their chars.
i just started my second char, expecting the game to be identical as playing it with my last. it's not, it's still a different game to me. i don't want to rush through and miss out on new experiences, and i do think that people who rush through are missing out, but it's their loss to take after all.

kkl · Jun 13, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Well.. replying to the original poster (cuz i didn't spend all the time to read all reply.. i just wanna give my 0.02gp)
Instead of closing the pass... when someone might just want to sight seeing the place..
i guess what AN should done is... put lvl/attribute requirement on armors too..
i mean.. just like weapons and off hand items in the game.. they reqire certain point of attribute to use it... a lvl 3 can be holding a max dmg fiery dragon with a max armor shield.. but he/she can't get the effect cuz his swordmanship is 2 and his tactic is 3...... and if u can push your lvl 10 char to have a swordmanship of 8 to use it.. fine... he will lack other attribute...
so.. i guess all it is needed is .. add a certain requirement on the armors... will fix that problem... that just my 0.02gp thoughts

Zodiac · Jun 14, 2005, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

You do not care, but that doesn't mean other people don't. Realize that this game doesn't cater to only you. Many people have expressed concerns over the "griefing" that occurs in the lower level arenas. Frankly, if you do not care about something, then why should anyone care about your opinion on the subject?

You care, but that doesn't mean other people do. Realize that this game doesnt' cater to only you. Many people have expressed non-concerns over the "griefing" that occurs in the lower level arenas. Frankly, if you care about something while others don't, why should those that don't hear your opinion on the subject?

See how I can turn that whole thing around. It's a non-argument.

It's true that I don't care about the low level arenas, but I do care about suggestions such as placing arbitary restrictions on items. If there are legitimate ways to get to those higher items through the pass, there's no reason not to allow that. We just have to make sure people actually work for them instead of paying a W/Mo to run through the pass.

And I do realize there are people who care, that's why I offered my suggestions on how to fix the problem. I simply stated my opinion. Take it or leave it. Your post, unfortunately, was total troll material.

So again, say no to arbitary restrictions, say yes to fixing the pass so it's not trivial to run through. If the pass takes a group of really well coordinated team of 5 high levels to fight through and escort one person, we won't have nearly as much concern.

Oh here's another idea, have a point somewhere in the pass that you have a mechanism like the White Mantle eye mish where the whole team needs to be "cleansed" (read: buffed) in order to get pass it. Sure it's work, but I would much rather see this kind of solutions personally.

salja Wachi · Jun 14, 2005, 01:43 AM // 01:43

i am positive the develpoers of the game knew what they were doing when they put in lornars pass and the mobs in it. if a level 4 can get through good for him.

leave it alone